{"id":642,"date":"2019-03-14T08:58:24","date_gmt":"2019-03-14T08:58:24","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/virtualseminar.icae.global\/?p=642"},"modified":"2019-03-11T18:54:55","modified_gmt":"2019-03-11T18:54:55","slug":"comment-by-roberto-catelli","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/virtualseminar.icae.global\/?p=642","title":{"rendered":"Comment by Roberto Catelli"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

Roberto Catelli comments on the article “Impact beyond the tests: adult education that makes a real difference”<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

El texto en espa\u00f1ol est\u00e1 abajo<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

\u00a0Professor at University of S\u00e3o Paulo (USP) with expertise in Educational Assessment, Curriculum Theory and Higher Education<\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

I believe that standardized tests can be important so that public policies on education can have some parameter on the investments and proposals made for a certain group, whether they are children or adults. However, it is evident that a public policy on education that only applies standardized tests to measure results runs the risk of making big mistakes. Worse than that is the belief that standardized tests induce change by taking to teachers the poor results obtained by a given group.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Thus, the example brought by Chanell Butler-Morello perfectly illustrates the limits of standardized tests, if we consider that the subjects are not standardized; that is, the idea that by applying models and teaching methods we obtain results depends more on the teacher or the teaching material than on the competence. It is also necessary to bear in mind who the learners are, which are their needs, their living conditions and their perspectives. In Brazil and in several Latin American countries, standardized tests have become a nightmare for educators. Even their promotions have remained dependent on the results of a standardized test in which the reality in which it is inserted is not taken into account to weigh and analyze the results.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

The case of the Adult Basic Education Program at Catawba Valley Community College in Hickory, North Carolina, clearly illustrates that equity does not mean that everyone achieves the same performance on a national assessment, but that those who are different are treated as different. At Catawba Valley Community College the subjects involved are people with disabilities, but the example extends to other groups.
We could refer, for example, to groups of young people living in poor neighbourhoods in several Latin American cities who were systematically excluded from school throughout their childhood and youth, who attended schools that only reinforced the subordinate place they should occupy in society without having access to literate culture. How could the results of these young people in such examinations in terms of science, mother tongue and mathematics, for example, be evaluated without considering their history of exclusion? What would be the best educational proposal for these young people? Would it be the case then to just create additional hours of study so that they would learn what other mates of their age have already learned? Or would it be more appropriate to think of other curricula that could rescue the meaning of knowledge, self-esteem and still be identified with the expectations of these young people? The issue of regaining self-esteem, as it appears in the case narrated in the article, may be as important or more central than any other learning. But this cannot be measured by standardized tests.<\/p>\n\n\n\n


This is the case with the curriculum developed for Catawba Valley Community College. For those people, a curriculum that considered other learnings ranging from growing vegetables to work with reading or vocational training was more significant. It is important to mention, in the case of adult education, a comment made by Thomas Sticht (2005) that minimizes the results obtained in the OECD evaluations in the 2000. For him, there is no consensus as to what competencies adults should have in order to perform many daily tasks. Thus, measurement may be adequate, but theoretical assumptions are not necessarily correct. The OECD test indicated a drop in the performance of older adults above 45 years of age; however, a large part of the tasks evaluated requires a recall, and it is possible to question the inadequacy of the measuring instrument considering the age group of the elderly. Sticht (2005) stressed that if adults had more time to read and understand what is being asked, and were able to solve the problem based on their baggage of knowledge, perhaps the results would be different.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

By that, I mean that the field of education of young people and adults is the field of diversity, of historically excluded people, who can only be treated as equals when their differences are respected and considered. Thus, standardized tests can even play a role in the evaluation of learning levels, but it cannot be considered as a solution to induce improvements in the educational level, because it will be necessary more than that to include young people and adults who are marginalized and historically excluded from the educational system.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\n\n\n

Roberto Catelli comenta sobre el art\u00edculo <\/strong>\u201cProducir un impacto m\u00e1s all\u00e1 de las evaluaciones: una educaci\u00f3n de adultos que marca la diferencia<\/strong>\u201d<\/strong><\/em><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

University of S\u00e3o Paulo, USP \u00b7 Departamento de Filosofia da Educa\u00e7\u00e3o e Ci\u00eancias da Educa\u00e7\u00e3o (EDF) (S\u00e3o Paulo)<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Creo que los ex\u00e1menes estandarizados pueden ser importantes para que las pol\u00edticas p\u00fablicas de educaci\u00f3n puedan tener alg\u00fan par\u00e1metro sobre las inversiones y propuestas formuladas para un determinado grupo, sean ni\u00f1os o adultos. Sin embargo, es evidente que una pol\u00edtica p\u00fablica de educaci\u00f3n que se limite a aplicar pruebas estandarizadas para dimensionar resultados corre el riesgo de cometer grandes equivocaciones. Peor que eso es la creencia de que las pruebas estandarizadas son inductoras de cambios por llevar a los profesores los malos resultados obtenidos por un determinado grupo.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

As\u00ed, el ejemplo tra\u00eddo por Chanell Butler-Morello ilustra perfectamente los l\u00edmites de las pruebas estandarizadas, si consideramos que los sujetos no son estandarizados, o sea, la idea de que se aplican modelos y m\u00e9todos de ense\u00f1anza y se obtiene resultados depende m\u00e1s que de la la competencia del profesor o del material did\u00e1ctico. Es necesario tener en cuenta tambi\u00e9n que son los sujetos aprendices, sus necesidades, condiciones de vida y perspectivas.
<\/p>\n\n\n\n

En Brasil y en varios pa\u00edses de Am\u00e9rica Latina, las pruebas estandarizadas se transformaron en la pesadilla de los educadores. Incluso sus promociones en la carrera se han quedado dependientes de los resultados de una prueba estandarizada en la que la realidad en que se inserta no se tiene en cuenta para ponderar y analizar los resultados. El caso del Programa de Educaci\u00f3n B\u00e1sica de Adultos que se imparte en el Catawba Valley Community College, en Hickory, Carolina del Norte, ilustra con claridad que la equidad no significa que todos alcancen el mismo desempe\u00f1o en una evaluaci\u00f3n nacional, sino tratar como diferentes a aquellos que son diferentes. En el Catawba Valley Community College los sujetos involucrados son personas discapacitadas, pero el ejemplo se extiende a otros grupos.
<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Podr\u00edamos referirnos, por ejemplo, a grupos de j\u00f3venes que viven en barrios pobres de varias ciudades de Am\u00e9rica Latina que fueron sistem\u00e1ticamente excluidos de la escuela a lo largo de su infancia y juventud, que asistieron a escuelas que s\u00f3lo reforzaron el lugar subalterno que deb\u00edan ocupar en la sociedad sin tener que acceso a la cultura letrada. \u00bfC\u00f3mo se podr\u00eda evaluar los resultados de estos j\u00f3venes en tales ex\u00e1menes en t\u00e9rminos de ciencias, lengua materna y matem\u00e1ticas, por ejemplo, sin considerar su historia de exclusi\u00f3n? \u00bfCu\u00e1l ser\u00eda la mejor propuesta educativa para estos j\u00f3venes? \u00bfSer\u00eda el caso entonces de s\u00f3lo crear horas adicionales de estudio para que aprendieran lo que otros colegas de su edad ya aprendieron? \u00bfO ser\u00eda m\u00e1s adecuado pensar en otros curr\u00edculos que podr\u00edan rescatar el significado del conocimiento, la autoestima y a\u00fan estuviesen identificados con las expectativas de esos j\u00f3venes? La cuesti\u00f3n de la recuperaci\u00f3n de la autoestima, como aparece en el caso que se ha narrado en el art\u00edculo, puede ser tan importante o m\u00e1s central que cualquier otro aprendizaje. Pero esto no puede ser medido por pruebas estandarizadas.
<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Este es el caso del curr\u00edculo que se desarroll\u00f3 para el Catawba Valley Community College. Para esas personas fue m\u00e1s significativo un curr\u00edculo que considerara otros aprendizajes que van desde cultivar verduras hasta el trabajo con lectura o formaci\u00f3n profesional. Es importante mencionar, en el caso de la educaci\u00f3n de adultos, una observaci\u00f3n hecha por Thomas Sticht (2005) que relativiza los resultados obtenidos en las evaluaciones de la OCDE en los a\u00f1os 2000. Para \u00e9l no hay consenso sobre cu\u00e1les ser\u00edan las competencias que el adulto deber\u00eda tener para realizar muchas tareas cotidianas. As\u00ed, la medici\u00f3n puede ser adecuada, pero los presupuestos te\u00f3ricos no necesariamente est\u00e1n correctos. La prueba de la OCDE indic\u00f3 una ca\u00edda de rendimiento de las personas adultas mayores, por encima de los 45 a\u00f1os, sin embargo, gran parte de las tareas evaluadas exige un llamamiento a la memoria, pudi\u00e9ndose cuestionar sobre una inadecuaci\u00f3n del instrumento de medida considerando el grupo de edad de los m\u00e1s ancianos. Sticht (2005) subray\u00f3 que si los adultos tuvieran m\u00e1s tiempo para leer y comprender lo que se pide, pudiendo resolver el problema con base en su equipaje de conocimientos, tal vez los resultados fuesen diferentes.
<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Con eso, quiero decir, que el campo de la educaci\u00f3n de personas y j\u00f3venes y adultas es el campo de la diversidad, de las personas hist\u00f3ricamente excluidas, que s\u00f3lo podr\u00e1n ser tratadas como iguales cuando se respetan y consideran sus diferencias. As\u00ed, las pruebas estandarizadas pueden incluso cumplir un papel en la evaluaci\u00f3n de niveles de aprendizaje, pero no puede ser considerada como una soluci\u00f3n para inducir mejoras en el nivel educativo, pues ser\u00e1 necesario m\u00e1s que eso para realizar la inclusi\u00f3n de j\u00f3venes y adultos marginados e hist\u00f3ricamente excluidos del sistema educativo. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

\n\n\n\n

Links to the AED 85\/2018 publication in three languages: English<\/a>, French<\/a>, S<\/a>panish<\/a>
Estos son los links para acceder a la publicaci\u00f3n en tres idiomas: In<\/a>gl\u00e9s<\/a>, Franc\u00e9s<\/a>, Espa\u00f1ol<\/a>
Voici les liens vers la publication en trois langues: Anglais <\/a>, Fran\u00e7ais<\/a>, Espagnol<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n

Veuillez utiliser <\/strong><\/em>google translator<\/a><\/strong><\/em> pour traduire les articles qui ne sont pas en fran\u00e7ais<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Roberto Catelli comments on the article “Impact beyond the tests: adult education that makes a real difference” El texto en espa\u00f1ol est\u00e1 abajo \u00a0Professor at University of S\u00e3o Paulo (USP) with expertise in Educational Assessment, Curriculum Theory and Higher Education I<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[7],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/virtualseminar.icae.global\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/642"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/virtualseminar.icae.global\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/virtualseminar.icae.global\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/virtualseminar.icae.global\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/2"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/virtualseminar.icae.global\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=642"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/virtualseminar.icae.global\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/642\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":658,"href":"https:\/\/virtualseminar.icae.global\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/642\/revisions\/658"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/virtualseminar.icae.global\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=642"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/virtualseminar.icae.global\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=642"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/virtualseminar.icae.global\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=642"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}